THE BEGINNING OF MAN

[Bri'on]

I am not a man of the cloth, I consider myself spiritual. Here is a question for the clergy of any faith, Can you explain the link between the following passages of GENESIS(KJV)?

 

 

GENESIS

1:27. So God created man in his [own] image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. 28. And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

2:7. And the Lord God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. 8. And the Lord God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

2:18. And the Lord God said, [It is] not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. 19. And out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought [them] unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that [was] the name thereof. 20. And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him. 21. And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; 22. And the rib, which the Lord God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man. 23. And Adam said, This [is] now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. 24. Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. 25. And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

[LibyaWest]

 

I get the author's premise, two separate stories. I see something different, 2 separate accounts in one story. It explains Cain's fear........Bri'on

 

I'm trying to keep this brief but what about this (using the wax and gold technique sketched in one of my prior post)......

 

Background.........The world is replete with stories of the "holy hermaphrodite" and "twins".  Twins aside, hermaphrodite equals "male and female".

 

 So meanwhile back in East Africa: "male(genitalia) + female(genitalia) = "ato + oma" = (t -->d) Adam.

 

It follows that some kind of excision was going to be necessary to create the sexes, second account.

 

There is another African story that parallels the "rib" story.

 

All of the explanations turn on word play,   some of which like the word "Adam" are left in place to preserve the tradition.

 

 

 

 

 

[JamieLMyer]

I am not being a "smart A..", legitimate question, the bible wasn't written in English so is the premise still transferable?  I find the commonalities of all religions--I think Unumbotte's story of Creation with the snake playing a dominate role and all the other creation myths involving snakes...WOW!  Differing times, places, thoughts...and yet so much in common.  (I digress, sorry)

[JamieLMyer]

would explain man's interpretation of reality being so diverse!

[Bri'on]

Jamie, who said you was being a smart A..? It must be way to hostile on this site, I thought we were having a dialogue. I don't recall you getting out of line and I hope I am in line. 

 

the bible wasn't written in English so is the premise still transferable?

 

Before the transfer how was the story told? If it was that Adam and Eve were told to go out and multiply, then people have been mis-representing what is written since the beginning. I think somewhere along the line the story changed orally yet remained in tact scripturally, could that be possible?

JamieLMyer said:

I am not being a "smart A..", legitimate question, the bible wasn't written in English so is the premise still transferable?  I find the commonalities of all religions--I think Unumbotte's story of Creation with the snake playing a dominate role and all the other creation myths involving snakes...WOW!  Differing times, places, thoughts...and yet so much in common.  (I digress, sorry)

[Bri'on]

"Background.........The world is replete with stories of the "holy hermaphrodite" and "twins".  Twins aside, hermaphrodite equals "male and female."

 

I have never heard of the "holy hermaphrodite" and the "twins," can you elaborate?

LibyaWest said:

 

I get the author's premise, two separate stories. I see something different, 2 separate accounts in one story. It explains Cain's fear........Bri'on

 

I'm trying to keep this brief but what about this (using the wax and gold technique sketched in one of my prior post)......

 

Background.........The world is replete with stories of the "holy hermaphrodite" and "twins".  Twins aside, hermaphrodite equals "male and female".

 

 So meanwhile back in East Africa: "male(genitalia) + female(genitalia) = "ato + oma" = (t -->d) Adam.

 

It follows that some kind of excision was going to be necessary to create the sexes, second account.

 

There is another African story that parallels the "rib" story.

 

All of the explanations turn on word play,   some of which like the word "Adam" are left in place to preserve the tradition.

 

 

 

 

 

[JamieLMyer]

Sorry, Bri'on,

All is well, some of my comments in the past have made people a little irate with me and now I am at times over-cautious.  My intention is to engage in honest, non-abusive dialog.  I can handle it when it is thrown my way--though at first I was a little surprised. I just wish we would talk to each other in a way that recognizes our humanity and the right to express our views. However much we might disagree, and oh boy have I seen some disagreements, I think we stand a better chance of at least understanding each other if we refrain from all the ugliness. Seems there's enough out in the world without our adding to it.  Thanks, Brion.  Jamie 

Bri'on said:

Jamie, who said you was being a smart A..? It must be way to hostile on this site, I thought we were having a dialogue. I don't recall you getting out of line and I hope I am in line. 

 

the bible wasn't written in English so is the premise still transferable?

 

Before the transfer how was the story told? If it was that Adam and Eve were told to go out and multiply, then people have been mis-representing what is written since the beginning. I think somewhere along the line the story changed orally yet remained in tact scripturally, could that be possible?

JamieLMyer said:

I am not being a "smart A..", legitimate question, the bible wasn't written in English so is the premise still transferable?  I find the commonalities of all religions--I think Unumbotte's story of Creation with the snake playing a dominate role and all the other creation myths involving snakes...WOW!  Differing times, places, thoughts...and yet so much in common.  (I digress, sorry)

[LibyaWest]

No can do......what you're asking will just lead to more questions!!!!  Just dive into the study of African cosmology with other members of the Ausar-Auset society. You already know "BES". And from the Dogons, you probably already know about the "NUMMO".  As you branch out into world study, you'll be able to make the links from one discipline to another. I do language.  (As I googled "hermaphrodite gods" I was surprised to see the interpretation I offered you, that is, "male and female = hermaphrodite" so frequent a topic of discussion. I just stick to my own "discipline" but its normally the case that what I've derived through simple language devices usually gets "verified"  by some other discipline.

[Bri'on]

Right on Jamie...understood.

 

"the bible wasn't written in English so is the premise still transferable?"

 

Before the transfer how was the story told? If it was that Adam and Eve were told to go out and multiply, then people have been mis-representing what is written since the beginning. I think somewhere along the line the story changed orally yet remained in tact scripturally, could that be possible?

JamieLMyer said:

Sorry, Bri'on,

All is well, some of my comments in the past have made people a little irate with me and now I am at times over-cautious.  My intention is to engage in honest, non-abusive dialog.  I can handle it when it is thrown my way--though at first I was a little surprised. I just wish we would talk to each other in a way that recognizes our humanity and the right to express our views. However much we might disagree, and oh boy have I seen some disagreements, I think we stand a better chance of at least understanding each other if we refrain from all the ugliness. Seems there's enough out in the world without our adding to it.  Thanks, Brion.  Jamie 

Bri'on said:

Jamie, who said you was being a smart A..? It must be way to hostile on this site, I thought we were having a dialogue. I don't recall you getting out of line and I hope I am in line. 

 

the bible wasn't written in English so is the premise still transferable?

 

Before the transfer how was the story told? If it was that Adam and Eve were told to go out and multiply, then people have been mis-representing what is written since the beginning. I think somewhere along the line the story changed orally yet remained in tact scripturally, could that be possible?

JamieLMyer said:

I am not being a "smart A..", legitimate question, the bible wasn't written in English so is the premise still transferable?  I find the commonalities of all religions--I think Unumbotte's story of Creation with the snake playing a dominate role and all the other creation myths involving snakes...WOW!  Differing times, places, thoughts...and yet so much in common.  (I digress, sorry)

[Bri'on]

I have not heard these terms (NUMMO) but if they are like you say they must be similar. What part of Africa does African cosmology spring from?

LibyaWest said:

No can do......what you're asking will just lead to more questions!!!!  Just dive into the study of African cosmology with other members of the Ausar-Auset society. You already know "BES". And from the Dogons, you probably already know about the "NUMMO".  As you branch out into world study, you'll be able to make the links from one discipline to another. I do language.  (As I googled "hermaphrodite gods" I was surprised to see the interpretation I offered you, that is, "male and female = hermaphrodite" so frequent a topic of discussion. I just stick to my own "discipline" but its normally the case that what I've derived through simple language devices usually gets "verified"  by some other discipline.

[LibyaWest]

Bri'On..... I don't know how this works but there's some online now right with the last name "Ibeji".  Maybe you can hook up with him/her if you want to know about "twins" in his/her tradition.

[Bri'on]

African Cosmology

Table1.1 explains some questions about similarity.

 

LibyaWest said:

No can do......what you're asking will just lead to more questions!!!!  Just dive into the study of African cosmology with other members of the Ausar-Auset society. You already know "BES". And from the Dogons, you probably already know about the "NUMMO".  As you branch out into world study, you'll be able to make the links from one discipline to another. I do language.  (As I googled "hermaphrodite gods" I was surprised to see the interpretation I offered you, that is, "male and female = hermaphrodite" so frequent a topic of discussion. I just stick to my own "discipline" but its normally the case that what I've derived through simple language devices usually gets "verified"  by some other discipline.

[JamieLMyer]

Thanks, I looked it up.  Unfortunately, for some reason my computer isn't showing table 1 clearly...go figure.  I'll check it out tomorrow at work.  Shh...

 

You might find the story told by Aristophanes in Plato's Symposium interesting (if you haven't read it already). It deals "once upon a time"  there were figures that had four feet four hands and were male/female, male/male, and female/female, Zeus fearful of these figures gaining too much power cleaved them in half leaving them (us) to forever search for their (our) other half.  The really fascinating aspect of this is how long people have been asking the same questions without receiving any answers.  

 

In the African Cosmology--it talked about the mix up of Atum becoming Atom (in line with Adam) oh my, I am more lost now than when I started paying attention to this discussion.  I have a lot of reading to do.