Take 'Em to Task: Occupy Obama

[Smiley and West]

		A listener from Occupy Seattle takes West to task about his openness to voting for Barack Obama in this year’s election. Read Mark Taylor-Canfield’s Open Letter to Dr. Cornel West, originally published on dailykos.com. Occupy Seattle website

[Mark Taylor-Canfield]

By the way - not sure if URLS are acceptable on this site, and it might be a bit off topic for this forum but here's what happened in Seattle at the march for Trayvon Martin: My article @ Huffington Post

At least three thousand marched together!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mark-taylorcanfield/seattle-marchers-...

[Jon Raymond]

The problem isn't that we need to fix the system. The problem is that we need to replace it and live without it as occupy had done in their camps. American democracy is done. Capitalism is done. Time's up.

[Chuck M]

@ Jeff

As refutation of the idea that Ralph Nader cost Al Gore the 2004 election, you cite four sources:

1. Ralph Nader's own web site
2. The Green Party web site
3. An online article by Tony Schinella in which he uses exit polling data to make his case
4. A statistical analysis of the Florida ballots by two highly educated professors, Jeffrey B. Lewis, Ph.D., and Michael C. Herron, Ph.D.

Frankly, I give credence to only the ballot-level statistical analysis.  I got the gist of what the authors of the paper looked at, but their statistical analyses were over my head.  I understand their conclusion, though.  The following is part of their conclusion:

"How do our results stack up against conventional wisdom, which holds that Ralph Nader
spoiled the 2000 presidential election for Gore? We find that this common belief is justified (my emphasis), but our results show clearly that Nader spoiled Gore’s presidency only because the 2000 presidential race in Florida was unusually tight. Had Florida had a more typical Bush-Gore margin in 2000, Nader would not have been a spoiler."

And, "...the notion that a left-leaning (right-leaning) third party presidential candidate by necessity steals votes from Democratic (Republican) candidates does not hold."

The problem is that we don't know how close any given race will be.  I, for one, am unwilling to take a chance voting for a third party candidate in the 2012 presidential election.

[Jeff 4 Justice]

Chuck M, Was Gore entitled to the election? There's no such thing as costing anyone the election. You run against opponents and you win or lose. We live in a democratic republic that is supposed to enable us multiple options, not a 2party tyranny in which we must blindly pledge allegiance to either Democrats or Republicans. Blind followers of the 2party system exclaim apocalyptic scenarios while the rotation of power goes in cycles anyway. What a bunch of nonsense.

[Ricardo Jones]

Lets don't pretend that we don't know that the obama adminstration is as corrupt as the bush adminstration. The president has our so called civil rights leaders to the whitehouse to pay them off for looking the other way when the obama adminstration does Black People wrong. We as Americans pay the same amount of taxes and maybe more in taxes than non-Black tax payers for less protection from our local, state and Federal Government ie: obama adminstration appointee's (Ms. Jackson at EPA and Ms. Jacqueline Berrien friend of the First Lady at the EEOC). Why does the Laws work against US and not for US obama? I would like the Harvard Law Professor (obama) and his attorney general (holder) to answer that question? Are we Black people not citzens of America? The laws of this great country still don't protect US look at Florida. Look at the obama adminstrations EEOC headed by the First Ladies friend Jacqueline Berrien. The EEOC can't find Race discrimination in the workplace. EEOC can only find Race discrimination in the workplace 3.5% of the time out of 100%. So obama's EEOC failed just like bush's EEOC did at the EEOC 96.5% of the time. obama Harvard and bush Yale. What's the difference

[Jeff 4 Justice]

Amen Ricardo Jones . Will you vote for an alternative party?

[Jon Raymond]

Ralph, the 2000 election was a fraud just like the 2004 election. Nader or no Nader. Bush was ordained by God as the winner long before anyone cast a vote, as if casting votes ever meant a flying !@& in the United Plutocratic Corporate Welfare States of America.

Jeff, define democratic - oh wait, I just did. You just misspelled. It starts with a P. Nonsense indeed. Anyone who thinks the U.S. is anything near what it's "supposed to be" must also believe in Santa Claus.

Chuck is "...unwilling to take a chance voting for a third party candidate...." Gee Chuck. How unoriginal. Didi you keep that from your last 15 elections and roll it out of moth balls just for us?.

Bottom line. Don't vote. revolt!

[Mark Taylor-Canfield]

One day an independent or third party candidate will actually be elected. The Dems and Repubs will have a collective nervous breakdown...And the American people will win!

[Jeff 4 Justice]

Amen Mark Taylor-Canfield

We agree on a lot Jon Raymond but I will not abstain from voting. It may be a miniscule power but it's all we got.

[Mark Taylor-Canfield]

Good discussion! Thank you for your comments. I really appreciate your feedback.

As Dr. West and Tavis say  -

"Stay Strong!"

[Jon Raymond]

Jeff, that's the thing. We don't have that. Voting means nothing. Between election fraud, corporate sponsorship, and the electoral college, voting is a sham. All voting gets you is a call to jury duty. I have better things to do with my time than worry about whether to vote for frick or frack.

America has long been subverted by the agenda (read Manufactured Consent by Chomsky) of those in control to distract you from the real issues of war, education, healthcare, foreclosure, bank criminals, police state, erosion of rights. Notice how no one is talking about any of that. All we talk about is who not to vote for. How obtuse is that?

[Ricardo Jones]

Yes

Jeff 4 Justice said:

Amen Ricardo Jones . Will you vote for an alternative party?