Take ‘Em to Task: Absolutist Nature

[Smiley and West]

		A listener from Santa Cruz, CA takes Smiley & West to task for their “absolutist position with regard to Super PAC money, but flexibility concerning the interplay between the Occupy Movement and willingness to vote to re-elect the president.”

[Jeff 4 Justice]

To all those afraid of voting for alternative parties:

We are supposed to live in a democratic republic with multiple choice options – not a 2party system tyranny. Elections go in cycles between the 2parties – you know this. It does not matter if a Democrat or Republican wins. They are both bought and controlled by the corporations.

The Arab Spring protestors have run out their tyrants but Democrats and Republican voters keep rewarding our tyrants by electing them over and over again.

If everyone who supports equal rights for gays kept settling for domestic partnerships then we would have 0 states with where marriage equality is legal.

Same goes for the advancement of alternative parties. “They can’t win” is a futile self-defeating way to think. And even if alternative parties fail, how do you expect principled elected officials if you cannot even be a principled voter? This is a sick abuser/victim mentality where the victim is too afraid to leave the abuser.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

PS: YouTube search: 3rd Parties Hindered By Media & Election Law Bias

[Christopher Kruger, Attorney]

I could not agree more; I am voting for Green Party candidate Jill Stein. I invite people to check her out. It is hard to believe so many intelligent people do the same thing over and over and "expect different results."

Jeff 4 Justice said:

To all those afraid of voting for alternative parties:

We are supposed to live in a democratic republic with multiple choice options – not a 2party system tyranny. Elections go in cycles between the 2parties – you know this. It does not matter if a Democrat or Republican wins. They are both bought and controlled by the corporations.

The Arab Spring protestors have run out their tyrants but Democrats and Republican voters keep rewarding our tyrants by electing them over and over again.

If everyone who supports equal rights for gays kept settling for domestic partnerships then we would have 0 states with where marriage equality is legal.

Same goes for the advancement of alternative parties. “They can’t win” is a futile self-defeating way to think. And even if alternative parties fail, how do you expect principled elected officials if you cannot even be a principled voter? This is a sick abuser/victim mentality where the victim is too afraid to leave the abuser.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

PS: YouTube search: 3rd Parties Hindered By Media & Election Law Bias

[Jeff 4 Justice]

Amen. It sounds like brothers Smiley & West are resistant to the idea.

Christopher Kruger, Attorney said:

I could not agree more; I am voting for Green Party candidate Jill Stein. I invite people to check her out. It is hard to believe so many intelligent people do the same thing over and over and "expect different results."

Jeff 4 Justice said:

To all those afraid of voting for alternative parties:

We are supposed to live in a democratic republic with multiple choice options – not a 2party system tyranny. Elections go in cycles between the 2parties – you know this. It does not matter if a Democrat or Republican wins. They are both bought and controlled by the corporations.

The Arab Spring protestors have run out their tyrants but Democrats and Republican voters keep rewarding our tyrants by electing them over and over again.

If everyone who supports equal rights for gays kept settling for domestic partnerships then we would have 0 states with where marriage equality is legal.

Same goes for the advancement of alternative parties. “They can’t win” is a futile self-defeating way to think. And even if alternative parties fail, how do you expect principled elected officials if you cannot even be a principled voter? This is a sick abuser/victim mentality where the victim is too afraid to leave the abuser.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

PS: YouTube search: 3rd Parties Hindered By Media & Election Law Bias

[Jacquelyn N'Jai]

If some folks vote for her, and others don't vote at all, there is a strong possibility that the right wingers 1% will get into office. Let's be mindful of what we ask for. { I'm sure the Green Party, like the Tea Party will not succeed}

Thanks

Jackie

[Jeff 4 Justice]

Nonsense. The 2party system goes in cycles so pretending otherwise is silly. You're basically advocating doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Obama is GBW's 3rd term on war, the drug war, the erosion of civil liberties, and the destruction of the environment. You have to be in deep denial to not see this.

All of the sorrows of Occupy are caused by the 2party tyrants.

At http://youtu.be/esV8dbTTdsg you can see the 2012 Presidential Debate Of Alternative Parties.

People used to say woman and black people could never vote. It happened. People used to say we'll never have a black President or openly-gay elected officials. It happened. Therefore we can certainly elect alternative political parties.

 

Jacquelyn N'Jai said:

If some folks vote for her, and others don't vote at all, there is a strong possibility that the right wingers 1% will get into office. Let's be mindful of what we ask for. { I'm sure the Green Party, like the Tea Party will not succeed}

Thanks

Jackie

[Jacquelyn N'Jai]

You have a right to your opinion ,,, Let's see what's going to happen in real life.

[Jeff 4 Justice]

Probably the sheeple will keep voting for their oppressors instead of breaking away from them.

Jacquelyn N'Jai said:

You have a right to your opinion ,,, Let's see what's going to happen in real life.

[Jacquelyn N'Jai]

Sheeple ? Frankly, I think anyone who gets into such an oppressive office, including you, will be subjected to the corruption or will be impeached, threatened or even assassinated. I don't think our votes even count for that matter. So until you restructure the "oppressive system" I'll say it again, let's see what happens in reality.

[Penguin Board of Directors]

Jeff 4 Justice, 

I sympathize with your sentiments but not necessarily the approach. Ideas like seedlings can be very powerful, but on a standalone basis, they do not amount to much. They have to be nurtured and taken through treacherous terrains to succeed. The champions must be foresighted enough to anticipate obstacles and challenges, get the people on their side, and neutralize the antics of entrenched interests.

The major roadblock to your political argument convincing many rational thinkers lies in the fatal error of building on pure idealism; only the gullible, the blockheads, an army of impetuous political neonates, the uninitiated and the hard-of-hearing may turn out impressed. A political ideology that is light years away from pragmatics is doomed to fail. In an authentic democracy, politics is about convincing majority of the people who as voters are the custodians of true power to see your viewpoint as best suited and situated to serve the people and their interests; the greater good for the greater majority. In such democratic settings, political victory usually accompanies well-crafted superior argumentation empirically grounded in what matters most to people, not in idealistic highfalutin sermons.

Here is an example; one based on my assessment of the prospects of Ron Paul's Presidential candidacy. As I indicated in an earlier post, Ron Paul would have been the best candidate to give incumbent President Obama a run for his money (and intellect), if a) the campaign was not bearing the burden of selling its ideas under a beaten establishment party, b) money was not as dominant in today's American politics as it turned out to be and c) today's America had arrived at that point on a continuum of political maturity for a total departure from stasis. Ron Paul had run as a 3rd-party candidate before and probably learned that it was a herculean task breaking through the inherent barriers of underdog in a highly moneyed game of presidential politics. The issue is not really about the platform being the Green Party, Yellow Party, Brown Party or Whatever Party to take the status quo apart. It is about preparing hard and long enough to connect (bond) with majority of the people. Take a cue from the unfolding political events in contemporary (2012) France and Greece. Review my posts on the prospects of major political contenders in both mainstream parties in the coming November (2012) American presidential elections.  

I agree with those who say that alternatives to the dominant 2-party system can stand a chance only if those alternatives first do their homework, build bottom-up from the grassroots to DC, and give the people a veritable shot at regaining their power, political materialism and relevance; not too far removed from what Barack Obama did in 2008; the Democrats happening to be the beneficiaries. Of course, it worked. The prevailing circumstances also helped. It could work for any other party, even outside the 2-party system, but not without the hard work and serious planning that such an endeavor demanded.

[Jeff 4 Justice]

Are you saying nothing is worth putting up a fight against?

 

Where would your right to vote if people before you accepted defeat without a fight?

Jacquelyn N'Jai said:

Sheeple ? Frankly, I think anyone who gets into such an oppressive office, including you, will be subjected to the corruption or will be impeached, threatened or even assassinated. I don't think our votes even count for that matter. So until you restructure the "oppressive system" I'll say it again, let's see what happens in reality.

[Jeff 4 Justice]

Penguin Board of Directors,

 

The 2party system and their oppressive voter laws (such as the Prop 14 Top-Two law here in CA) + their corporately controlled media bias is not going to enable alternative parties to progress much further.

 

Despite this alternative parties have been around a long time and are getting on ballots despite unfair election laws. They are running candidates in local races.

 

Only voters wising up and stopping the justifying of their oppressors and consenting to their oppressors will change things.

 

Until people quit doing something as very simple as voting for the lesser or evil when they need not vote evil at all then yes things will stay as is.

 

People like Smeily & West and Michael Moore and Occupy and all the civil rights and workers groups can keep b******* about things while continuing to do the same thing over and over (voting for the 2party system) and expecting different results is futile.

 

The 2party system rotates in cycles so it does not matter who wins.

 

You have a choice. Consent to the 2party system and keep voting for it or stop.

 

 

Penguin Board of Directors said:

Jeff 4 Justice, 

I sympathize with your sentiments but not necessarily the approach. Ideas like seedlings can be very powerful, but on a standalone basis, they do not amount to much. They have to be nurtured and taken through treacherous terrains to succeed. The champions must be foresighted enough to anticipate obstacles and challenges, get the people on their side, and neutralize the antics of entrenched interests.

The major roadblock to your political argument convincing many rational thinkers lies in the fatal error of building on pure idealism; only the gullible, the blockheads, an army of impetuous political neonates, the uninitiated and the hard-of-hearing may turn out impressed. A political ideology that is light years away from pragmatics is doomed to fail. In an authentic democracy, politics is about convincing majority of the people who as voters are the custodians of true power to see your viewpoint as best suited and situated to serve the people and their interests; the greater good for the greater majority. In such democratic settings, political victory usually accompanies well-crafted superior argumentation empirically grounded in what matters most to people, not in idealistic highfalutin sermons.

Here is an example; one based on my assessment of the prospects of Ron Paul's Presidential candidacy. As I indicated in an earlier post, Ron Paul would have been the best candidate to give incumbent President Obama a run for his money (and intellect), if a) the campaign was not bearing the burden of selling its ideas under a beaten establishment party, b) money was not as dominant in today's American politics as it turned out to be and c) today's America had arrived at that point on a continuum of political maturity for a total departure from stasis. Ron Paul had run as a 3rd-party candidate before and probably learned that it was a herculean task breaking through the inherent barriers of underdog in a highly moneyed game of presidential politics. The issue is not really about the platform being the Green Party, Yellow Party, Brown Party or Whatever Party to take the status quo apart. It is about preparing hard and long enough to connect (bond) with majority of the people. Take a cue from the unfolding political events in contemporary (2012) France and Greece. Review my posts on the prospects of major political contenders in both mainstream parties in the coming November (2012) American presidential elections.  

I agree with those who say that alternatives to the dominant 2-party system can stand a chance only if those alternatives first do their homework, build bottom-up from the grassroots to DC, and give the people a veritable shot at regaining their power, political materialism and relevance; not too far removed from what Barack Obama did in 2008; the Democrats happening to be the beneficiaries. Of course, it worked. The prevailing circumstances also helped. It could work for any other party, even outside the 2-party system, but not without the hard work and serious planning that such an endeavor demanded.

[Jacquelyn N'Jai]

I am a fighter. I believe in a good fight. I believe in a fight that could be won. However, we only have 6 months and I think it may take longer to convince enough people to vote outside the Democratic/republican box. I  agree we need a new party if you will. Nonetheless at this rate I am not sure those on the run LOL will be any different than what we have....

Jeff 4 Justice said:

Are you saying nothing is worth putting up a fight against?

 

Where would your right to vote if people before you accepted defeat without a fight?

Jacquelyn N'Jai said:

Sheeple ? Frankly, I think anyone who gets into such an oppressive office, including you, will be subjected to the corruption or will be impeached, threatened or even assassinated. I don't think our votes even count for that matter. So until you restructure the "oppressive system" I'll say it again, let's see what happens in reality.