Take ‘Em to Task

[Smiley and West]

		A listener from Chicago takes Smiley to task for his comments about education.

[p.a. glenn]

I would suggest to the caller that he visit one (public school) kindergarten class in every state and in every neighborhood. I guarantee that he will meet eager to learn, enthusiastic, joyous and happy little people.  For some of these same students, as they get older and experience life more-in and out of school-their view of life and school becomes jaded. None of us can choose our parents nor when/where we are born etc... therefore, we can't abandon these kids just because we don't like the way they act when they come to school, especially since the way they act is directly related to the environment they're exposed to.

[Tessa Byrd]

...The system is broken, what to do involves more than it seems we are capable of even agreeing upon!

[Ree Timmer]

The system is broken and passing a law that states that "we have a right to a high quality education" still won't ensure that it happens.  What will ensure that this occurs are parents who are willing to scream and yell to remove teachers and administrators who refuse to educate their children and parents who constantly reinforce the idea to their children that the key to success is getting a good education.  Parents must be willing to become life long learners so that they can assess whether or not their children are really learning the things they should be learning in the classroom.  The truth of the matter is that we can not trust the scores on state tests.  We can go to library and take out the book What a Sixth Grader Should Know.  There is a book available for every grade level.  If we (the parents) are competent,  knowledgeable, active, and engaged; then we can ensure that our children receive a quality education so that they can also become successful.

[Yonah El]

Keep Moving, The Peaceful Nation has arrived.

[Nazar Artykula]

I think you hit the nail on the head, what the caller calls culture is what media and television shoves in our head. The direct result of the current system values nothing but the disregard for education, this "culture" which the caller speaks about. Take for instance standardization, state tests for competency, its disgusting. The teachers which I valued in school were the teachers that made me question presumed cultural tendencies, the teachers that went against the current, the standardization, and created an environment for curiosity and learning. To say that we shouldn't guarantee every child high quality education, due to the culture that sprang up as a result of our broken system, is disingenuous and ultimately futile to the people and greater good. Altruism is a virtue, and this caller has none, he's a self serving individual, who has been demoralized by the system, ultimately leading to nihilism, and is actually going against any progressive action.

p.a. glenn said:

I would suggest to the caller that he visit one (public school) kindergarten class in every state and in every neighborhood. I guarantee that he will meet eager to learn, enthusiastic, joyous and happy little people.  For some of these same students, as they get older and experience life more-in and out of school-their view of life and school becomes jaded. None of us can choose our parents nor when/where we are born etc... therefore, we can't abandon these kids just because we don't like the way they act when they come to school, especially since the way they act is directly related to the environment they're exposed to.

[Jaymes Taylor (Jay)]

"Altruism is a virtue, and this caller has none, he's a self serving individual, who has been demoralized by the system, ultimately leading to nihilism, and is actually going against any progressive action."

in response to this comment about the callers' spirit of intention,
I believe he was expressing the frustration of hearing the same old suggestions for the same old problems found in public education at a time when the class struggle trumps the race struggle as a priority on our social radar.  Success is now promoted as sex, money and celebrity, when in actuality a  good education produces an experience of success transcendant to those superficial notions of a good life.  A good life is indeed altruistic in nature making it a virtue and something our capitalist notions forbid as we are confronted with the undeniable truths of competitive humanity living on one globe.  We need to raise to question the virtues and vices of "public education in America" today.  This may be too much for us at this time in our history as the world turns on an axis not dominated by european concerns as priority.  What kind of people are we hoping to create in a world so unfamiliar?  Do we dare to believe it is better to give than to receive?   Just what do we believe it means to be "educated or successful" in America? And do we believe it enough to want to give it up without being "self-serving"? 

[Yonah El]

The problem is that people feel we have to agree on everything to do anything. Who told you that, or more to the point, what on earth would make you believe that. We can do a lot if we just move on what we agree upon, put the things we disagree upon on the shelf until later. For now, lets deal with what we all agree upon and when we disagree, "PASS ON THAT AND COME BACK TO IT LATER."  That is how you deal with complicated problems in a grass roots mass movement setting. If you want to get down, join with us....http://www.moveon.org/team/members/index.html...we will see to it that you get training and help where ever you live in the USA. Just ask for the coordinator and tell him I said you need help. Then...KEEP MOVING. And keep the faith

[Nazar Artykula]

Um, I completely agree with what you said. But you're putting words into the caller's mouth, whereas I was saying that he was disenfranchised by culture and as a result made a point about education. So what I would propose is 2 things, do what Tavis said and reform the culture: get rid of Marketing and let the products sell themselves if they are so good. There's so many factors that have played in the shaping of our culture which led to the mess that they were talking about.

Jaymes Taylor (Jay) said:

"Altruism is a virtue, and this caller has none, he's a self serving individual, who has been demoralized by the system, ultimately leading to nihilism, and is actually going against any progressive action."

in response to this comment about the callers' spirit of intention,
I believe he was expressing the frustration of hearing the same old suggestions for the same old problems found in public education at a time when the class struggle trumps the race struggle as a priority on our social radar.  Success is now promoted as sex, money and celebrity, when in actuality a  good education produces an experience of success transcendant to those superficial notions of a good life.  A good life is indeed altruistic in nature making it a virtue and something our capitalist notions forbid as we are confronted with the undeniable truths of competitive humanity living on one globe.  We need to raise to question the virtues and vices of "public education in America" today.  This may be too much for us at this time in our history as the world turns on an axis not dominated by european concerns as priority.  What kind of people are we hoping to create in a world so unfamiliar?  Do we dare to believe it is better to give than to receive?   Just what do we believe it means to be "educated or successful" in America? And do we believe it enough to want to give it up without being "self-serving"? 

[LibyaWest]

edit...cut

[JamieLMyer]

Thank you...parents need to hold the administrators and the teachers accountable.  What has legislation will accomplish what?  The tests have become a regression to the mean, and our talented and smart children are not allowed to bloom.  Everyone, every child should be allowed the opportunity to have an amazing education.  How do you ensure that the students choose the right path...tough, tough situation in which this country is failing terribly. Every person in this country should be concerned with the education of every child.  A whole generation is going to be disenfranchised in the very near future.  Here is my question to all, what do you think the cost to this country will be when this occurs? If you don't care about the child, and as an educator who has pissed off more than my share of people because of their apathy, enuui or it's not my problem my child is getting a great education, care about the impact on our country of people who cannot read, do basic math, are clueless when it comes to technology, design, education, sustainability, engineering, science...need I go on...imagine all of these children who cannot function in the 21st Century...I humbly recommend moving away from the me and moving toward a collective consciousness that recognizes the negative ramifications of massive numbers of disenfranchised adults as oppossed to massive numbers of highly educated and productive members of their communities and our society.  PS The majority of the crappy teachers ending up in the lower performing schools is not a myth. 

 

Sincerely,

 

One massively pissed off teacher
Ree Timmer said:

The system is broken and passing a law that states that "we have a right to a high quality education" still won't ensure that it happens.  What will ensure that this occurs are parents who are willing to scream and yell to remove teachers and administrators who refuse to educate their children and parents who constantly reinforce the idea to their children that the key to success is getting a good education.  Parents must be willing to become life long learners so that they can assess whether or not their children are really learning the things they should be learning in the classroom.  The truth of the matter is that we can not trust the scores on state tests.  We can go to library and take out the book What a Sixth Grader Should Know.  There is a book available for every grade level.  If we (the parents) are competent,  knowledgeable, active, and engaged; then we can ensure that our children receive a quality education so that they can also become successful.

[JamieLMyer]

whoops, delete the has, gotta start reading these before I send.  Sorry! 

[Wilma de Soto]

Listening to the tape I understood the caller's frustration.

 

I am assuming, perhaps in error, that most of the respondents here do not teach in an inner city public school or even spent a week in one since they were students.  Those of us who are there every day can understand what he meant by the culture.  Our youth today are beset with conspicuous consumerism which all to often their parents are too will to indulge; and this is at ALL socio-economic levels.

School and education is not a priority for American children the way it is in other countries. It just isn't and of course everyone blames teachers for this as the caller said.

It's a matter of home training and preparation at home for the school experience and the drive to succeed that makes the difference in how much people can achieve.

Would you allow your child to sit idly playing games for four and a half years and then send him off to cooking school when he has never seen, held or ever used a knife which will be the first things they will have to master before becoming a chef.

It's not uncommon to have children enter school not knowing their last name, letters, colors, address, why they are here or what we as teachers do.  They are asking us to build a house in the middle of the air without a foundation.  As more things are piled on during school years and there's no foundation on which to build, the structure collapses which is what happens to many children. They crash down and burn.

I understand and agree with Tavis Smiley's assertion that all children should have access to a quality education; however in many monied school districts the teachers there would not last an hour in the inner city. They are not necessarily the best teachers, but they DO have the state-of-the-art resources and parents who motivate their children. How can you lose?

Where I disagree with Tavis is his assumption it is the teachers are faling students and not the other way round.  School should be an institution of learning and scholarship; not a surrogate parent, or day care. SO many things are done in inner-city schools that used to be done at home, there's barely time to teach the curriculum, which has been subsequently so restricted by politicians that school is no longer a place for creativity, wonder, critical thought for BOTH student and teacher.

Finally, I really do not meant this to sound harsh but I wish people who have never taught would listen more to those of us who do. We are the ones who should be consulted about how to improve schools. We have really had enough of educational bureaucrats, politicians, lawyers and former teacher haters, leading this discussion.  Charter schools after all were started by and run by teachers first, before the more powerful amongst us hijacked the movement.

The love or dislike of schools and education starts at home. These little girls who can sit for eight hours at a time getting micro braid extensions pit in their hair, but complain about having to sit through a 45 minute math class or write a paragraph shows where the home priorities lie.

Develop a culture and respect for learning and we can succeed.