Hot Stuff: Occupy Wall Street

[Smiley and West]

		Hundreds of activists occupied Wall Street this week in protest of the banking bailout amid rising unemployment. Smiley: I’m encouraged by all signs that this democratic awakening is starting to take place. West: Courageous folk. Civil disobedience is part and parcel of the American democratic process.

[Jennifer Warren]

One should never assume that the USA, which is so famed for using its military throughout the world to affect regime change (whenever it is profitable for one of the multinationals it's military represents) might use its own military for the purposes of changing its own system of government.

 

To do so would be on par with cutting off ones own nose to spite ones face.

LibyaWest said:

Libya was a successful, socialist, secular, consensus-driven democracy. Too bad more people, including the educated ones, don't know that.

[LibyaWest]

Hundreds of activists occupied Wall Street this week in protest of the banking bailout amid rising unemployment.....

 

I've been around block enough times to know that when the western propaganda mills and the talking heads start repeating phrases like,"These protesters are in the wrong place. They should be protesting at....", that these protests are being held in the exactly the right spot!

[Jennifer Warren]

Well said

LibyaWest said:

Hundreds of activists occupied Wall Street this week in protest of the banking bailout amid rising unemployment.....

 

I've been around block enough times to know that when the western propaganda mills and the talking heads start repeating phrases like,"These protesters are in the wrong place. They should be protesting at....", that these protests are being held in the exactly the right spot!

[bishop omega]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlF2GzfU7DE

[Howard R. Lee]

Good stuff Jennifer,

I appreciate hearing your point of view, everything you said sounds so reasonable. On some level we should know you need laws to control the greed and avarice that are a natural by-product of our capitalist system. However, it seems the pendulum has swung completely in the other direction and with the supreme courts ruling in Citizens United it is now official our system is up for sale. I keep asking myself, how could the court make such an irresponsible ruling? I have to conclude they are for sale as well, I just can't see it any other way.

Jennifer Warren said:

The problem is that we have a system that doesn't work.  Pure capitalism created a system of three classes :  Rich, Middle Class, and Poor -- and then, just as in the days of medieval europe, the rich waged war on everyone else... so that now there are really only two classes...the top 1% - and everybody else.

 

Clearly, we need to look at other options.  The only systems which I have seen which work all involve a parliamentary system - where the president is required to appear before representatives of the people on a regular basis to answer questions put to him.  

 

I have also noticed that the best of the parliamentary systems place limits on the number of terms a legislator can remain in office, and have criminal penalties for both lobbyists and representatives in all cases where the representative receives a gift, the promise of a gift, or a flat out cash donation to their campaign funds from corporations which hired the lobbying company or the lobbyist.  

 

In such cases where corporations are involved in giving anything (even an after dinner mint) to a representative, the corporations lose their charter, all of their assets are seized by the government, and the board of directors all go to jail.  As for what happens to the company...sometimes the government just nationalizes it and runs it as a public service...and sometimes they just close it up.  It all depends on what is best for the country.

 

The reason such things can be done, of course, is that Corporations do not have any legal personhood status in most countries.  They are therefore held accountable for everything they do.  And the idea of turning a former corporation into a public service is not anathema to others, as the money earned all winds up going to take care of things like education (no student loans, other countries take care of everything), healthcare, water (yes, many countries are deeply concerned about the coming water crisis...and are building giant conversion facilities to convert seawater to fresh water...and of course, working hard to convert all available existing water supplies to high quality drinking water.) and most importantly...energy and (in some cases) renewable energy research and implementation.

 

Other countries even get involved in dealing with their own infrastructure...building and maintaining roads, bridges , schools etc.  As well as building affordable housing ...with the simple goal of providing a place for those who might otherwise be homeless.

 

Does it cost more?  Absolutely.  But the question is...what do the people get for their money?  Lets look, shall we?

 

1:  A top notch education - including college degree's - all paid for by the government.  Result?  Better jobs, better salary and a much happier public...for everyone is able to do the job they love.

a)  A place to live while going to college, as well as basic living expenses to cover food, phone and other utilities.  Rent is taken care of by the government.

2:  A top notch healthcare system - where anyone who needs healthcare can see a doctor of their choice.

a) And women who are pregnant are given an assistant - paid for by the government - to help them around the house - cooking, cleaning or whatever.

 

3:  The right to engage in collective bargaining with their employer...or, if they are the only employee...the right to bargain for themselves, without fear of being fired for trying to bargain for what they want.

 

In addition to this...clean water to drink (from the faucet !)  clean air to breath (without the need of an air purifier !)  a minimum wage which is actually enough to live on (for HS level students, or those who are going to college and want a bit of extra cash)

 

And of course, most importantly of all... Politicians who go to JAIL if they take from corporations.  Corporations which KNOW that they will be DESTROYED if they try to give anything to politicians...and lastly...corporate leaders which go to jail if they put out advertisements concerning their positions on any politician or public bill.  Why?  Because spending money on an ad which takes a side is the same thing as DONAtING to that side.  

 

 

As for the mortgage crisis created by wall street?  Every bank and corporation that was involved would have been seized by the government, and their leaders (from the CEO/COO/CFO etc.) on up through the board of directors...would have ALL gone to JAIL.

 

As for the banks themselves?  They would have all been nationalized into one national bank.  The corporations?  Depending on how important they were to the economy...they would have either been nationalized or sold off right down to the last paperclip.

 

Of course, in such a country, the Supreme Court, the congress and the senate would all have term limits.  The supreme court would probably get 6 years (with a 1 term limit), with the senate (6 year term) and congress (a 4 year term) each getting 2 terms each - with the President getting a 5 year term- but still limited to only 2 terms in office.

The result of such a country is that the idea of holding the same office for 30 years or more would be eliminated...and the Supreme Court would be more subject to the will of the people instead of the will of corporations....for its members would almost certainly be rotated with every election.

 

What is wrong with this?  Many believe that the legend of the soldier who won christ's robe meant that a divine influence was involved in his winning it.  If this is true, then isn't it reasonable to believe that a divine influence would guide a country whose judicial decisions were reviewed on a regular basis...and applied by the best -- current -- justices that the results of a vote (the ultimate lottery) for President resulted in ?

 

Is such a system socialism?  I honestly don't see how it could be.  If anything, it is democracy in action - with a government which not only represents the people...but which SERVES the people.  Where accountability is swift and sure.  

In such a system, capitalism is still alive and well...its only enemy is when its participants break the laws.  Those who pollute would be penalized, and the company would be forced to clean it up.  Those who lie and cheat and defraud the public...would be held accountable.  Those who tried to buy off politicians, would also be held accountable.

 

But bakery's could still bake.  ISP's could still operate.  Grocery stores would still be open.  Gas and other things would still be sold.  

 

Is it a crime to say :  Get all you can, but don't trash my country while you're at it?

 

I don't think so.

 

Is it socialism to say :  Lets help the sick, the old, and the homeless.

 

I don't think so.

 

Is it socialism to say :  Let us teach our people...and if they are sick or hurt...let us care for them.

 

I don't think so.

 

Socialism however, is a word which means "A government of, by and for the people"

 

OMG !  Abe Lincoln was a socialist !  Run away !  

Run Away !  Run Away !

 

 

 

 

 

This is the kind of country I'd like to live in...and this is the kind of country which I sincerely 

 

[PR Joe Felix]

I've been away from S&W for a few weeks and now after having read a few statements from some ignorant handkerchief heads I have been reminded as to why I've stayed a way so long. RE-elect Obama? Unbelievable!!! 

The worst thing about S&W is the fact that it is overly populated by sellout house negroes. Seems to me that all they are concerned about is business. They have been so thoroughly corrupted by the system that they can't even think straight anymore. By now they are so lost that they are stupid enough to think they're smart. I'm sure that one of the main reasons they are hell bent on making money is so that they can keep up with their "white" neighbors so as to be respected by them.

Also I could just imagine how expensive it must be to have their hair processed to make it as close to "white folks" hair as possible and those bleaching creams ain't cheap.

I just hope that the next time they find themselves at one of those boring "Cocktail Parties" that they might remember my words when they look around at all those "white folks" sipping champagne while Rome Burns.

[PR Joe Felix]

Thank you.

Howard R. Lee said:

Good stuff Jennifer,

I appreciate hearing your point of view, everything you said sounds so reasonable. On some level we should know you need laws to control the greed and avarice that are a natural by-product of our capitalist system. However, it seems the pendulum has swung completely in the other direction and with the supreme courts ruling in Citizens United it is now official our system is up for sale. I keep asking myself, how could the court make such an irresponsible ruling? I have to conclude they are for sale as well, I just can't see it any other way.

Jennifer Warren said:

The problem is that we have a system that doesn't work.  Pure capitalism created a system of three classes :  Rich, Middle Class, and Poor -- and then, just as in the days of medieval europe, the rich waged war on everyone else... so that now there are really only two classes...the top 1% - and everybody else.

 

Clearly, we need to look at other options.  The only systems which I have seen which work all involve a parliamentary system - where the president is required to appear before representatives of the people on a regular basis to answer questions put to him.  

 

I have also noticed that the best of the parliamentary systems place limits on the number of terms a legislator can remain in office, and have criminal penalties for both lobbyists and representatives in all cases where the representative receives a gift, the promise of a gift, or a flat out cash donation to their campaign funds from corporations which hired the lobbying company or the lobbyist.  

 

In such cases where corporations are involved in giving anything (even an after dinner mint) to a representative, the corporations lose their charter, all of their assets are seized by the government, and the board of directors all go to jail.  As for what happens to the company...sometimes the government just nationalizes it and runs it as a public service...and sometimes they just close it up.  It all depends on what is best for the country.

 

The reason such things can be done, of course, is that Corporations do not have any legal personhood status in most countries.  They are therefore held accountable for everything they do.  And the idea of turning a former corporation into a public service is not anathema to others, as the money earned all winds up going to take care of things like education (no student loans, other countries take care of everything), healthcare, water (yes, many countries are deeply concerned about the coming water crisis...and are building giant conversion facilities to convert seawater to fresh water...and of course, working hard to convert all available existing water supplies to high quality drinking water.) and most importantly...energy and (in some cases) renewable energy research and implementation.

 

Other countries even get involved in dealing with their own infrastructure...building and maintaining roads, bridges , schools etc.  As well as building affordable housing ...with the simple goal of providing a place for those who might otherwise be homeless.

 

Does it cost more?  Absolutely.  But the question is...what do the people get for their money?  Lets look, shall we?

 

1:  A top notch education - including college degree's - all paid for by the government.  Result?  Better jobs, better salary and a much happier public...for everyone is able to do the job they love.

a)  A place to live while going to college, as well as basic living expenses to cover food, phone and other utilities.  Rent is taken care of by the government.

2:  A top notch healthcare system - where anyone who needs healthcare can see a doctor of their choice.

a) And women who are pregnant are given an assistant - paid for by the government - to help them around the house - cooking, cleaning or whatever.

 

3:  The right to engage in collective bargaining with their employer...or, if they are the only employee...the right to bargain for themselves, without fear of being fired for trying to bargain for what they want.

 

In addition to this...clean water to drink (from the faucet !)  clean air to breath (without the need of an air purifier !)  a minimum wage which is actually enough to live on (for HS level students, or those who are going to college and want a bit of extra cash)

 

And of course, most importantly of all... Politicians who go to JAIL if they take from corporations.  Corporations which KNOW that they will be DESTROYED if they try to give anything to politicians...and lastly...corporate leaders which go to jail if they put out advertisements concerning their positions on any politician or public bill.  Why?  Because spending money on an ad which takes a side is the same thing as DONAtING to that side.  

 

 

As for the mortgage crisis created by wall street?  Every bank and corporation that was involved would have been seized by the government, and their leaders (from the CEO/COO/CFO etc.) on up through the board of directors...would have ALL gone to JAIL.

 

As for the banks themselves?  They would have all been nationalized into one national bank.  The corporations?  Depending on how important they were to the economy...they would have either been nationalized or sold off right down to the last paperclip.

 

Of course, in such a country, the Supreme Court, the congress and the senate would all have term limits.  The supreme court would probably get 6 years (with a 1 term limit), with the senate (6 year term) and congress (a 4 year term) each getting 2 terms each - with the President getting a 5 year term- but still limited to only 2 terms in office.

The result of such a country is that the idea of holding the same office for 30 years or more would be eliminated...and the Supreme Court would be more subject to the will of the people instead of the will of corporations....for its members would almost certainly be rotated with every election.

 

What is wrong with this?  Many believe that the legend of the soldier who won christ's robe meant that a divine influence was involved in his winning it.  If this is true, then isn't it reasonable to believe that a divine influence would guide a country whose judicial decisions were reviewed on a regular basis...and applied by the best -- current -- justices that the results of a vote (the ultimate lottery) for President resulted in ?

 

Is such a system socialism?  I honestly don't see how it could be.  If anything, it is democracy in action - with a government which not only represents the people...but which SERVES the people.  Where accountability is swift and sure.  

In such a system, capitalism is still alive and well...its only enemy is when its participants break the laws.  Those who pollute would be penalized, and the company would be forced to clean it up.  Those who lie and cheat and defraud the public...would be held accountable.  Those who tried to buy off politicians, would also be held accountable.

 

But bakery's could still bake.  ISP's could still operate.  Grocery stores would still be open.  Gas and other things would still be sold.  

 

Is it a crime to say :  Get all you can, but don't trash my country while you're at it?

 

I don't think so.

 

Is it socialism to say :  Lets help the sick, the old, and the homeless.

 

I don't think so.

 

Is it socialism to say :  Let us teach our people...and if they are sick or hurt...let us care for them.

 

I don't think so.

 

Socialism however, is a word which means "A government of, by and for the people"

 

OMG !  Abe Lincoln was a socialist !  Run away !  

Run Away !  Run Away !

 

 

 

 

 

This is the kind of country I'd like to live in...and this is the kind of country which I sincerely 

 

[PR Joe Felix]

Go Jennifer!

Jennifer Warren said:

Well said

LibyaWest said:

Hundreds of activists occupied Wall Street this week in protest of the banking bailout amid rising unemployment.....

 

I've been around block enough times to know that when the western propaganda mills and the talking heads start repeating phrases like,"These protesters are in the wrong place. They should be protesting at....", that these protests are being held in the exactly the right spot!

[bishop omega]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmEHcOc0Sys

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlF2GzfU7DE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yEm87vZ82E&feature=related

[Jennifer Warren]

It makes little difference.

As for the torture and beatings... I defy you to think about irony as you are being subjected to them.

 

Aton Ausar said:

If the conclusion is being drawn that the ruling oligarchy and their increasing concentration of wealth is the greatest threat to democracy, then this is a watershed event and should be supported. That the continued existence of a ruling oligarchy is the fully matured and natural offspring of generations of white skinned privilege and exploitation is an irony that is not lost on me when I watch caucasian police pepper spray their wives sisters and mothers in obedience to the same oppressive apparatus that continues to slay my seed everyday.

As an operative reality, Obama and Cain serve the same masters. Then of what difference does it make which brown hand puppet has center stage when the same folks are orchestrating the play?

[Jennifer Warren]

Good luck trying to get that point across.  I've tried for 40 years.  Your turn.

 

Candace McCarty said:

"The left must realize that when progressives achieved success in the past, whether at organizing unions or fighting for equal rights, they seldom bet their future on on politicians."

"A reconnection with ordinary Americans is vital not just to defeating conservatives in 2012 and elections to come. Without it, the left will remain unable to state clearly and passionately what a better country would look like and what it will take to get there. To paraphrase the labor martyr Joe Hill, the left should stop mourning its recent past and change the future. "
- Michael Kazan Proffessor of history at GEORGETOWN, co-editor of Dissent and the author of "American Dreamers: How the Left Changed a Nation."

[Bennetta]

Thanks Bri'on!!!  Good, thought-provoking, logical TRUTH IT IS!

Whatever you may think of Ron Paul, he is RIGHT in his understanding of the power of paper money and its' dangerous relationship to CENTRAL BANKS and I pray that one day his dream of auditing the Federal Reserve Bank finally comes to fruition so that we may all finally see the massive over-seas loans made to war-driven countries by the $BILLIONS while Americans at home are struggling with unemployment and poverty at alarming rates.  The message is clear, "ta hell with da poor" while there remains so much POWER to be conquered and sustained in the name of Supreme and Dominating Global Militarism!

 
Bri'on said: