Affirmative Action should be based on Need, Not Race!

[offie wortham]

        Affirmative Action should be based on Need, not Race!

     I am a person of partially African descent. Sometimes called Black or African American. Many people make the tragic mistake of believing all individuals who are identified with a specific ethnic or racial group share the same worldview. Nothing could be further from the truth. My perceptions and reactions to events in the world are very different from most who consider themselves spokespersons for all Black people.

     As far as affirmative action is concerned, there are many youth who have benefited from this program and have gone on to accomplish great deeds. I believe, however, that if the special consideration had been based upon need instead of upon race, most of these good students would still have been admitted and still have gone on to successful careers. Academic standards should never be lowered for any specific racial or ethnic individual or group because of their ethnicity.

     Without affirmative action the minority enrollment at many colleges would drop from 15 percent to 4 percent. Why would this be a bad thing if the remaining 4 percent did as well as their peers and went on to compete successfully in the work world? The drop-out rate for Black males at some community colleges is over 90%! Is this good for the youth who were told they were “college material”? (Try to find out the drop-out rate for minorities at any college in the country.)

     Aren't we tired yet of seeing black athletes exploited on the basketball courts and on the football fields? Does it help race relations in this country to reinforce negative stereotypes about the academic inferiority of certain ethnic groups? Who is being helped when students are put into a situation where the odds are high that they will fail?

     The Supreme Court decision to remove race as a remedy for integration was a good one. Isn't it racist to assume all Blacks need affirmative action? Affirmative action was originally intended to give an advantage to Blacks because they were generally considered academically inferior to Whites and others, and all Blacks were labeled as "disadvantaged." Is the term ''disadvantaged'' still synonymous in some people's minds with African Americans or blacks, American Indians and Hispanics? Isn't it about time we let the term only apply to those who are subjected to severe economic and social disadvantages, unfavorable living conditions or circumstances and vastly unequal levels of preparation for higher education? If we could do this, race would not be a factor in the definition, but lifestyle would.

     What about the ''advantaged'' black students? Would Condoleeza Rice or Cornell West have qualified as disadvantaged blacks deserving preferential treatment merely because of their perceived ethnic identity? Would it have been logical to have treated either these two brilliant individuals as needing any kind of special help or treatment because of the color of their skin? Or would it have been highly insulting to them and their parents? Will Obama’s daughters need Affirmative Action? 

     Isn’t it boring to expect everyone to follow a "party line" about affirmative action or anything else? The insecure leaders of many minority organizations have a disproportionate amount of power and influence over the minds of the many good people in the country, especially white liberals, who are afraid to voice their true beliefs in fear of being called a "racist." Whatever happened to freedom of thought? Is everyone out there afraid of being branded "politically incorrect?"

[Brenda]

That is the whole truth, and nothing, but the truth, so help me God :~)! Go back and edit this information, no one is perfect... :~)! My test score's got me in, I left Davenport with a; 3.04 grade point average. Now, I Think, I could have, done much better :~)!

Peace,

-U-

[offie wortham]

Hi Brenda,

What should I go and edit?

Offie

Brenda said:

That is the whole truth, and nothing, but the truth, so help me God :~)! Go back and edit this information, no one is perfect... :~)! My test score's got me in, I left Davenport with a; 3.04 grade point average. Now, I Think, I could have, done much better :~)!

Peace,

-U-

[Tracey F Walker'Drazenovich]

I have a daughter that is bi-racial and she attends Dartmouth, she received a scholarship for kids from families that make under 60 thousand, and also IAM SURE the fact that she was minority also went into to play,, but my daughter met ALL REQUIREMENTS that a student paying or of Caucasian descent. Affirmative Action was developed due to the disproportionate opportunities for minorities basically a form of reparations. This seems to anger so many people, but if you do the math you will see how 400 hundred years of not being educated or paid. Think about a child who gets neither for 18 years. Now I too was growing tired of this argument, but then I had to think about how blessed I was to have parents that were educated and able to put my sister and me in a position to compete.  If this country had TRULY given others the same opportunity and I don’t mean this lightly, because there are plenty of poor whites fighting to ahead also. The damage that was done through slavery discriminating laws and acts has left the minority groups of this country in an extreme disadvantage, particularly the Native American, which Dartmouth was actually founded for. We can no longer sit and believe that somehow we are being given something, because if they are creating this believe me the situation is 100 times worst than we can imagine. The government always gives the bare minimum to correct its actions. I was in the US Army, and that is just how it works. One can take this and use it for your benefit or you cannot use it but best believe when they get rid of it you will see the difference. Also the individuals that get into these institutions have to meet the requirements. If you cannot hang when you get the school you are kicked out like everyone else to include that Ivy League Bush like individual who has gotten a platinum education. Once you get in you have to compete with these individuals on an everyday basis, and we won’t get into the emotional side of this and the still dismissive treatment that these minorities contend with WHILE competing with some of the most privileged in the WORLD. I believe rather than give back these mere crumbs that have been given to us we need to focus on using them more often. Do you know how many scholarships go unused do to the fact no one applies or meets the criteria? The governments so – called “handouts” are never emotional, nor compassionate them implemented due to the needs of a society, and like I mentioned earlier they are the bare minimum. The emotional part will be up to us. Taking responsibility for our people helping our own to be able to compete I believe is where we need to focus, this “I got mine now you get yours” Crabs in bucket mentality is something that was created due to extreme circumstances during slavery and discriminatory laws. Basically this behavior is one of desperation in order to survive. We as a people have to get rid of a lot of this behavior. While in the army every Equal opportunity officer assigned to my units, black or white will always give statistics of largest racial and gender group of complainants and it never fails it was ALWAYS the white male, go figure  I have a daughter that is bi-racial and she attends Dartmouth, she received a scholarship for kids from families that make under 60 thousand, and also IAM SURE the fact that she was minority also went into to play,, but my daughter met ALL REQUIREMENTS that a student paying or of Caucasian descent. Affirmative Action was developed due to the disproportionate opportunities for minorities basically a form of reparations. This seems to anger so many people, but if you do the math you will see how 400 hundred years of not being educated or paid. Think about a child who gets neither for 18 years. Now I too was growing tired of this argument, but then I had to think about how blessed I was to have parents that were educated and able to put my sister and me in a position to compete. If this country had TRULY given others the same opportunity and I don’t mean this lightly, because there are plenty of poor whites fighting to ahead also. The damage that was done through slavery discriminating laws and acts has left the minority groups of this country in an extreme disadvantage, particularly the Native American, which Dartmouth was actually founded for. We can no longer sit and believe that somehow we are being given something, because if they are creating this believe me the situation is 100 times worst than we can imagine. The government always gives the bare minimum to correct its actions. I was in the US Army, and that is just how it works. One can take this and use it for your benefit or you cannot use it but best believe when they get rid of it you will see the difference. Also the individuals that get into these institutions have to meet the requirements. If you cannot hang when you get the school you are kicked out like everyone else to include that Ivy League Bush like individual who has gotten a platinum education. Once you get in you have to compete with these individuals on an everyday basis, and we won’t get into the emotional side of this and the still dismissive treatment that these minorities contend with WHILE competing with some of the most privileged in the WORLD. I believe rather than give back these mere crumbs that have been given to us we need to focus on using them more often. Do you know how many scholarships go unused do to the fact no one applies or meets the criteria? The governments so – called “handouts” are never emotional, nor compassionate them implemented due to the needs of a society, and like I mentioned earlier they are the bare minimum. The emotional part will be up to us. Taking responsibility for our people helping our own to be able to compete I believe is where we need to focus, this “I got mine now you get yours” Crabs in bucket mentality is something that was created due to extreme circumstances during slavery and discriminatory laws. Basically this behavior is one of desperation in order to survive. We as a people have to get rid of a lot of this behavior. While in the army every Equal opportunity officer assigned to my units, black or white will always give statistics of largest racial and gender group of complainants and it never fails it was ALWAYS the white male, go figure

[offie wortham]

Dear Tracey,

 

Congratulations to you and your duaghter! Sounds like she is a fine daughter. What exactly is your point with regard to my essay? Do you agree or disagree?

 

Offie Wortham

Tracey F Walker'Drazenovich said:

I have a daughter that is bi-racial and she attends Dartmouth, she received a scholarship for kids from families that make under 60 thousand, and also IAM SURE the fact that she was minority also went into to play,, but my daughter met ALL REQUIREMENTS that a student paying or of Caucasian descent. Affirmative Action was developed due to the disproportionate opportunities for minorities basically a form of reparations. This seems to anger so many people, but if you do the math you will see how 400 hundred years of not being educated or paid. Think about a child who gets neither for 18 years. Now I too was growing tired of this argument, but then I had to think about how blessed I was to have parents that were educated and able to put my sister and me in a position to compete.  If this country had TRULY given others the same opportunity and I don’t mean this lightly, because there are plenty of poor whites fighting to ahead also. The damage that was done through slavery discriminating laws and acts has left the minority groups of this country in an extreme disadvantage, particularly the Native American, which Dartmouth was actually founded for. We can no longer sit and believe that somehow we are being given something, because if they are creating this believe me the situation is 100 times worst than we can imagine. The government always gives the bare minimum to correct its actions. I was in the US Army, and that is just how it works. One can take this and use it for your benefit or you cannot use it but best believe when they get rid of it you will see the difference. Also the individuals that get into these institutions have to meet the requirements. If you cannot hang when you get the school you are kicked out like everyone else to include that Ivy League Bush like individual who has gotten a platinum education. Once you get in you have to compete with these individuals on an everyday basis, and we won’t get into the emotional side of this and the still dismissive treatment that these minorities contend with WHILE competing with some of the most privileged in the WORLD. I believe rather than give back these mere crumbs that have been given to us we need to focus on using them more often. Do you know how many scholarships go unused do to the fact no one applies or meets the criteria? The governments so – called “handouts” are never emotional, nor compassionate them implemented due to the needs of a society, and like I mentioned earlier they are the bare minimum. The emotional part will be up to us. Taking responsibility for our people helping our own to be able to compete I believe is where we need to focus, this “I got mine now you get yours” Crabs in bucket mentality is something that was created due to extreme circumstances during slavery and discriminatory laws. Basically this behavior is one of desperation in order to survive. We as a people have to get rid of a lot of this behavior. While in the army every Equal opportunity officer assigned to my units, black or white will always give statistics of largest racial and gender group of complainants and it never fails it was ALWAYS the white male, go figure  I have a daughter that is bi-racial and she attends Dartmouth, she received a scholarship for kids from families that make under 60 thousand, and also IAM SURE the fact that she was minority also went into to play,, but my daughter met ALL REQUIREMENTS that a student paying or of Caucasian descent. Affirmative Action was developed due to the disproportionate opportunities for minorities basically a form of reparations. This seems to anger so many people, but if you do the math you will see how 400 hundred years of not being educated or paid. Think about a child who gets neither for 18 years. Now I too was growing tired of this argument, but then I had to think about how blessed I was to have parents that were educated and able to put my sister and me in a position to compete. If this country had TRULY given others the same opportunity and I don’t mean this lightly, because there are plenty of poor whites fighting to ahead also. The damage that was done through slavery discriminating laws and acts has left the minority groups of this country in an extreme disadvantage, particularly the Native American, which Dartmouth was actually founded for. We can no longer sit and believe that somehow we are being given something, because if they are creating this believe me the situation is 100 times worst than we can imagine. The government always gives the bare minimum to correct its actions. I was in the US Army, and that is just how it works. One can take this and use it for your benefit or you cannot use it but best believe when they get rid of it you will see the difference. Also the individuals that get into these institutions have to meet the requirements. If you cannot hang when you get the school you are kicked out like everyone else to include that Ivy League Bush like individual who has gotten a platinum education. Once you get in you have to compete with these individuals on an everyday basis, and we won’t get into the emotional side of this and the still dismissive treatment that these minorities contend with WHILE competing with some of the most privileged in the WORLD. I believe rather than give back these mere crumbs that have been given to us we need to focus on using them more often. Do you know how many scholarships go unused do to the fact no one applies or meets the criteria? The governments so – called “handouts” are never emotional, nor compassionate them implemented due to the needs of a society, and like I mentioned earlier they are the bare minimum. The emotional part will be up to us. Taking responsibility for our people helping our own to be able to compete I believe is where we need to focus, this “I got mine now you get yours” Crabs in bucket mentality is something that was created due to extreme circumstances during slavery and discriminatory laws. Basically this behavior is one of desperation in order to survive. We as a people have to get rid of a lot of this behavior. While in the army every Equal opportunity officer assigned to my units, black or white will always give statistics of largest racial and gender group of complainants and it never fails it was ALWAYS the white male, go figure

[Tracey F Walker'Drazenovich]

Lolol sorry I tend to be a rambler... and lose focus of my message,, I believe that we need affirmative action, I don’t feel that this preferential treatment. But getting in because your father is on the board or a huge donator, or you are a family legacy is. I guess that is my point as it relates to affirmative action. Affirmative was created to right the wrong of preferential treatment. Although this action is in place its usage cannot be fully exercised due to the disproportionate opportunities due to the separate but equal conditions that are still apparent. I guess what I am saying that we as a minority cannot afford to give back the crumbs that have been given to us, but rather work to use these small corrective actions of the government to the fullest. Let’s face it many of these affirmative action programs are not being utilized by black Americans, but now by Africans, who by all standards meet the criteria academically and are now American citizens. sorry did it again,, I  respectively disagree, but enjoyed your essay, and your points were very intriguing, and definately need to be discussed in this time of economic & educational disparity amongst minorities to include the poor.

[Tracey F Walker'Drazenovich]

  

I forgot to mention the athletes, “the new high priced slave” this is a whole separate issue due to the fact it is now perpetuated by big money due to the huge interest in college sports, and its ability to make huge amounts of money for the institution.  This is very similar to the plantations. This is hard for me even comment on due to the fact I really despise seeing a notably racist institution such as Notre dame have an all black team that is actually making it money, for a group that in reality, had no love for us, or a school like Arizona which would insult our Harvard schooled president by saying he does not meet the criteria for a honorary degree, but have an all black team, that again is bringing in revenue,, it’s disgusting, but I would hate to be so arrogant to feel as though I have the right to disregard the opportunity of some of the black males, that though they are working for this sickening organization, are also able to earn a degree, rather they learned or not. Our young people NEED to have that degree in this 21^st century; this is at least creating a starting point for a educated legacy. That is a hard call, unfortunately I am a TRUE bleeding heart liberal (progressive) so I am pretty much sold on anything that appears to benefit the disadvantage.  One more thing in America one's race can definately determain need.     

[Shelia Ellis]

I think this is very disrespectful to our brothers and sisters of higher education. Have you ever stop to ask

yourself why you are not on the Jewish Federation board complainting about how and what they do for their race of people. Why do it seem so unfair to you that we try to get what they say is due to us (they said it not us). Why does it get to you either way? Why are you on the side to challenge us instead of build us up), are you scared of what we can accomplish as a whole like the other race of people. I've notice you try to put affirmative action with reparations you are sad. If that's the case every black citizen should go to Harvard not Community Harvard because thats not equal if not given an equal opportunity. You still have to have at least at 3.8 or something and they know that public schools are can not compare to private schools where the other kids are coming from. Don't act like we came from the same place and are given the same opportunity because thats a lie. Do right and things will be right America is just like Americans never wants to pay their debt but we get charge interest on ours.

Look at the Jews they got Jew kids traveling all over the world and their programs are design for them. Get off our back jack make a new plan man. 

[offie wortham]

Well,

I believe we have gotten the attention of a few thoughtful people. Please understand that I, as a person-of-color, sometimes called Black or African American, have been the subject of racism in this country. If you do some research you will find out that the vast majority of colleges that have admitted people who did not meet the normal entrance requirements also failed out the majority of those same previously admitted students. Have you ever been in a situation where you were in over your head? When I attended Antioch College as a physics major the professor asked the students in the class who were valedictorians to raise their hand. Of 18 people in the class, 9 raised their hand. I was not one of them. He than asked the Salutatorians (#2 in the graduating class) to raise their hands. Seven more hands went up. Mine still stayed down. He then asked the National Merit Finalists to raise their hands. All the students in the class, except me, raised their hands. And I was the only Black in the class! Suppose I did not have the background to survive in that class? Should I have been put into such a situation? How long do you think I would have lasted if I had not been fully qualified academically to compete?

We are not doing a person a favor to make them think they are better prepared then they really are!  I was fortunate to have worked in advanced research with IBM for 3 years before I went to college. Therefore I got an A+ on the first test in the class, and the professor posted it on the wall as a model exam. Please check out the drop-out rates at any college in the country and compare the statistics by ethnicity or race. It's not because brothers and sisters are stupid...It's because of the extreme gap between the educational levels of the various high schools in this country.

[Shelia Ellis]

Well they should be better prepared. Why you acting like everything is honky dora over here.

the whole system is messed up. I was once over my head but my head grew into the situation. If everyone was Harvard scholars whose going to work at Mc Donalds or the call centers. No one should consider themselves higher than the next because every career is not equal. Just because I'm not you don't mean by anymeans you are better at what I do or I am better than what you do. Lets drop the expensive labels and get alone long enough to make a differences for the better ment of this country and our people. Anything good happen out of your journey through college did you learn anything to teach us or to lift us up, wha cha doing any programs? Tell us about it and lets get it cracking cause we don't need not nam nother brother bringing us down. Willie Lynch stops here.  

offie wortham said:

Well,

I believe we have gotten the attention of a few thoughtful people. Please understand that I, as a person-of-color, sometimes called Black or African American, have been the subject of racism in this country. If you do some research you will find out that the vast majority of colleges that have admitted people who did not meet the normal entrance requirements also failed out the majority of those same previously admitted students. Have you ever been in a situation where you were in over your head? When I attended Antioch College as a physics major the professor asked the students in the class who were valedictorians to raise their hand. Of 18 people in the class, 9 raised their hand. I was not one of them. He than asked the Salutatorians (#2 in the graduating class) to raise their hands. Seven more hands went up. Mine still stayed down. He then asked the National Merit Finalists to raise their hands. All the students in the class, except me, raised their hands. And I was the only Black in the class! Suppose I did not have the background to survive in that class? Should I have been put into such a situation? How long do you think I would have lasted if I had not been fully qualified academically to compete?

We are not doing a person a favor to make them think they are better prepared then they really are!  I was fortunate to have worked in advanced research with IBM for 3 years before I went to college. Therefore I got an A+ on the first test in the class, and the professor posted it on the wall as a model exam. Please check out the drop-out rates at any college in the country and compare the statistics by ethnicity or race. It's not because brothers and sisters are stupid...It's because of the extreme gap between the educational levels of the various high schools in this country.

[offie wortham]

Hi Shelia,

Thanks for getting involved in this discussion. Your views and opinions are as important as anybody elses. I believe one of my purposes on this planet is to help others live a better life and be happy. Because I am Black, my primary concern is for Black people. Here's a link to a bit about my efforts to fight racism since I was 14 years old: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CBw...

Don't know if it will work or not.

Offie Wortham

Shelia Ellis said:

Well they should be better prepared. Why you acting like everything is honky dora over here.

the whole system is messed up. I was once over my head but my head grew into the situation. If everyone was Harvard scholars whose going to work at Mc Donalds or the call centers. No one should consider themselves higher than the next because every career is not equal. Just because I'm not you don't mean by anymeans you are better at what I do or I am better than what you do. Lets drop the expensive labels and get alone long enough to make a differences for the better ment of this country and our people. Anything good happen out of your journey through college did you learn anything to teach us or to lift us up, wha cha doing any programs? Tell us about it and lets get it cracking cause we don't need not nam nother brother bringing us down. Willie Lynch stops here.  

offie wortham said:

Well,

I believe we have gotten the attention of a few thoughtful people. Please understand that I, as a person-of-color, sometimes called Black or African American, have been the subject of racism in this country. If you do some research you will find out that the vast majority of colleges that have admitted people who did not meet the normal entrance requirements also failed out the majority of those same previously admitted students. Have you ever been in a situation where you were in over your head? When I attended Antioch College as a physics major the professor asked the students in the class who were valedictorians to raise their hand. Of 18 people in the class, 9 raised their hand. I was not one of them. He than asked the Salutatorians (#2 in the graduating class) to raise their hands. Seven more hands went up. Mine still stayed down. He then asked the National Merit Finalists to raise their hands. All the students in the class, except me, raised their hands. And I was the only Black in the class! Suppose I did not have the background to survive in that class? Should I have been put into such a situation? How long do you think I would have lasted if I had not been fully qualified academically to compete?

We are not doing a person a favor to make them think they are better prepared then they really are!  I was fortunate to have worked in advanced research with IBM for 3 years before I went to college. Therefore I got an A+ on the first test in the class, and the professor posted it on the wall as a model exam. Please check out the drop-out rates at any college in the country and compare the statistics by ethnicity or race. It's not because brothers and sisters are stupid...It's because of the extreme gap between the educational levels of the various high schools in this country.

[Learner]

Dr. Wortham:

 

It is my understanding that White women have benefited the most from Affrimative Action, and yet there is no mention of this in your coments. It is sad, in a country where people from all over the world are marginalized due to their ethnicity and their income that we continue to see Affirmative Action as Black entitlement. 

 

I remind you of the tenets of critical theory that seeks to identify and "expose cultural systems that oppress and marginalize certain people"(Merriam, 2009, p. 36). I argue that elements of the American culture have and continue to marginalize certain groups of people, particularly the poor, the uneducated, and the disenfranchised.  In critical theory, the goal is to “critique, challenge, transform and empower” and that is what I am advocating for people and concerned with the long-term stability and sustainability of our world do (Patton as cited in Merriam, p. 34).

Your comments hint at the need for individualism, which as you know is ingrained in the American psyche. My belief is that Individualism is an American ideology that is designed and perpetuated by the powerful to make the masses believe that if you work hard, do the right things, get trained and educated you will have a better life. Modern American life negates this premise. The fairytale mentality ingrained in the American psyche to “pull yourself up by your bootstrap” dismisses the fact that there are structural forces at play in American society that prevent the poor from escaping poverty and ignorance and keep the the masses in ignornace and poverty (Royce, 2009). These forces include school segregation and funding disparities, low expectations by teachers toward Afircan American children in general, and black males in particular, and income barriers to higher education.

Unfortunately very little in American ideology suggests that those in power need help in understanding how the social structures they have built marginalizes those who remain in poverty and ignorance or how these sturctures cause the conditions of poverty and ignornace to persist. We would rather focus on the poor, uneducated, and their "lifestyles" and what they do or do not do instead of creating discourse on inequities. The absurdity of this individualist bent is apparent in this “developed” nation where over 43.6 million people live in poverty. That is MILLION and the numbers are growing.

In answer to your  comments, I suppose there is certainly room for those who believe the myth that those who support Affirmative Action support a "party line" mentality and that Affirmative Action is only meant for Black folks. I would also hope there is room for those who seek peaceful protest, equality and seek social change by advocating and working with the poor and undeducated through “critical awareness, active citizenship, social action, in pursuit of the common good (Lechner & Boli, 2008, p. 79). However, the misuse of capitalism, individualism, globalism, or any other ism to withhold and subvert our thinking about the structural inequalities that undermine the success of Black folks and others that are oppressed in the United States or abroad cannot continue.  And what I am hearing from you is classism.

Lechner, F., & Boli, J. (2008). The globalization reader (3rd ed.). Malden, MA: Blackwell.

Merriam, S. (2009). Qualitative research: A guide to design and implementation. San Francisco, CA: Wiley
Royce, E. (2009). Poverty & Power: The problem of structural inequality. Lanham, MD: Rowman & Littlefield.

[Brenda]

I Think, I am in the right place. Now Sir, you must find the origin of that information. I did not start the chat, but I did give my opinion. But, I will give you this, My Grandmother told me some stories, you may not want to believe, concerning what She LIVED THROUGH, in the deep south. I remember the past; but, I Am NOT, going to keep on re-living it, over, and over and over again. MY FATHER, has put me in a better place. I can't change the past, but I can TRY, to help, create a better future, for some of Our people. As my FATHER, would say IF; some WILL CONSIDER, Listening to what other's and I have to say. I hope some things change, before  I go home, to My FATHER, because I don't want to give HIM a bad report, concerning my experience's, on the surface of the earth :~)!

peace,
-U-